Customer Omega for the Airlines

This article has 38 comments:

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  LongTimeObse
  rver

  Apr 11 11:38 AM
  Bingo. ConAir provides more reliable, personalized service.
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  Roadwarrior

  Apr 11 12:20 PM

  My Website
  Oh, you just aren't biased at all. You didn't even ask why she had to go to the airport to change her ticket. because she had a paper ticket, asshat! Those can only be changed in person, the paper ticket she requested does not care how disabled she is. That is why the airlines try to get people to use electronic tickets. Yes, those same evil airlines.
  
  And the all biz airlines you love so much, more coming? Maxjet already shut down and the others wont be far behind. You might know that if you actually knew how to research the things you write about. Or if you actually flew one of those airlines, which I highly doubt.
  
  Relationship with the airlines? That relationship is a two-way street called reality. You might want to go there sometime.
  
  Big oil and cheap-ass passengers who choose one airline over the other based on fare that is $5 cheaper are the cause of the current airline woes.
  
  Please, please pull your head out of your ass.
•  
  Gotta be
  Kidding

  Apr 11 12:21 PM
  Once again, an example of pointy-headed gasbags spewing hot air rather than doing the slightest bit of research to back their claims, Jarvis rises to the top of that steaming heap today. "at least the FAA is doing its job" is his crowning statement of ignorance. As one who flys these planes for a living, I can give the facts that these are fixes that could have been done any time over the normal maintenance cycle of the airplane. They were not "Safety of flight" groundable items. But, because the FAA had it's head up its rear at Southwest, They felt compelled to exert their authority under no uncertain terms. AA's only mistake was to have a CEO with no fortitude to stand up to this measure. If the FAA had thought this was such a great threat, why did it take so long to implement this grounding? After all, this is not a new airworthiness directive. It has been around for months. Appears to be a failure of the FAA on one front or the other.
  
  Furthermore. Jarvis gnashes his teeth over the current state of the industry. What he fails to acknowledge is that this is the system the public has decided it wants. When the only criteria the vast majority seek when planning their air travel is price........ over time you will get the system you are willing to pay for. So it has come to pass. As for Eos, and Silverjet, who has heard of these airlines. And what about Maxjet? They all start as very noble ideas that Jarvis champions, but each, over time, fails. Hmmmm......wonder why?
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  Roadwarrior

  Apr 11 12:27 PM

  My Website
  gotta be kidding, you said the same things, only said them better. thank you.
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  Capt.
  Sterling
  Harra

  Apr 11 12:55 PM
  Next time you want to write, try a little research!
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  primescot1

  Apr 11 02:13 PM
  a prisoner, treated like a prisoner..........exac... how it feels in an airport.
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  cydrone

  Apr 11 03:23 PM
  As Roadwarrior pointed out, the old lady almost certainly had a paper ticket, which she probably requested because holding a paper ticket in her hands made her more comfortable. Although I don't understand why she couldn't send it back to AA by mail, anyone who asks for a paper ticket should be aware of the hassles associated with them and can't blame the airline when a change or refund is necessary. Domestic travelers should always use e-tickets.
  
  I think Northwest is doing an excellent job in the current environment. I get very good service from 80-90% of the staff and got home yesterday only 15 minutes late despite bad weather over the entire midsection of the country (including the Memphis and Minneapolis hubs). A recent survey gave NWA the highest rating of the "legacy" airlines, and my recent experiences are consistent with those results. I do not want the merger with Delta to happen because one of the most likely results will be the demise of the Memphis hub, where significant delays are rare.
  
•  
  Ex15:26

  Apr 11 03:34 PM
  And I thought the passengers were angry, I never knew the crew could be so nasty. From the back of the plane they seem so nice, I had no idea that they had such bad manners and poor language.
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  User 176831

  Apr 11 03:42 PM
  I agree, lets take the airlines back 30 years to the pre de-regulation era! You can pay $2000 for a ticket to Omaha, but get great service even a hug and kiss from the flight attendant. Unfortunately, you do not represent the average american who flies on an airplane. Its not all about you.
  
  You have no business reporting on the airline industry.
  
  And oh yea, look at how well those luxury first class airlines have done lately... Do some research on MaxJet. Expect to see more of these carriers in the crapper by the end of the year.
•  
  not Bob
  Crandall

  Apr 11 06:00 PM

  My Website
  An old maxim: management gets the labor relations they deserve and labor gets the management that they deserve. AA proves this, and I'll go one step further. Customers get the level of service they deserve (by virtue of the price they are willing to pay). Ask for "more room throughout coach" but don't pay the $5.00 per ticket it cost and the removed seats go right back in. Ask for superior service but pay peanut fares, and you get peanut service. Let's indeed go back to regulation; that will give the public what they want, right?
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  User 176909

  Apr 11 06:39 PM
  You truly have written a great piece here, piece of what I do not know. Your comments are the same that are uttered at airports all over the country by the loudmouth in line of a flight that has cancelled. You are pandering to the crowd and your simplistic statements belie your lack of knowledge. Let me guess, at cocktail parties you complain about having to pay $199 to go roundtrip from NYC to LAX.
  How many airlines need to go under before you understand the complexities of running an airline. It is a race to the bottom in terms of revenue, and the FAA that is "finally getting it right" is among the top 5 reasons the airlines have so many problems.
  Too bad there is not an agency that covers hack bloggers and uninformed opinions.
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  cydrone

  Apr 11 07:22 PM
  It's not just leisure travelers who aren't willing to pay the $5 (or $25 or $50) extra per ticket to get "more room throughout coach" or better service. My corporate travel website complains if I do not book the lowest fare: "Fare is $1 more than lowest-cost logical airfare." I would gladly pay somewhat more for a better travel experience, but there is no easy way to do that. On routes served by LCCs, the legacy airlines match their fares (instead of charging a reasonable premium of, say, $25-50 or 10-20%), and on routes without low-cost competition we have ridiculous fares (e.g., $700 round-trip from Memphis to Minneapolis or DFW).
  
  I hate the LCCs. Southwest has no reserved seats and does not allow standby travel, both of which are ridiculous. Why can't I have that seat if it's going out empty? AirTran is somewhat better, but I recently experienced a delay caused by a mechanical problem and they would not put me on a rival carrier because there was no interline agreement. I fly Northwest and United because they don't have these limitations and find ways to offer more for my money (a high percentage of free elite upgrades on NWA and Economy Plus on United).
  
  If people bought airline tickets the same way they buy food (i.e., a better product is worth somewhat more), we could have a reasonable marketplace.
  
•  
  Jeff Jarvis

  Apr 11 07:53 PM

  My Website
  Oh, so having a paper ticket is a ticket to hell and a buttfucking from the airline industry. Your protests are the clearest evidince of why this industry is permanently screwed. Screwing your customers is no business model, folks.
  Another airline goes bankrupt today.
  You airline defenders are all flying fast into oblivion. Bye-bye now.
•  
  Zeon

  Apr 11 09:12 PM
  What's the incentive again for the airlines to change? People who fly expect great service and cheap tickets. More or less mutually exclusive concepts. You want cheap tickets, you get less service. It's a trade-off. You don't want to put up with the shoddy service take a bus. The Frontier bankruptcy puts a little blood in the water. Valuations are starting to look attractive.
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  Truthfull

  Apr 11 09:23 PM
  Hey Jeffey, do you get drinks served to you when you stand in that horrible line at the post office? or the grocery? do you get a free hotel and a meal while you wait in the emergency room? Oh yeah, and just what do you get at the train station when they "announce" on the speaker, not in person, that this train is cancelled. Not one fucking thing. So why pray tell, is the airline industry the ONLY one that has to shell out the fucking world because they have cancelled a flight????? Tell us you cheap prick. Are you the guy who screams about a cancelled flight in FLL due to a hurricane?
  The fact is, the wonderfull FAA guy who was assigned to the Southwest debacle was reassigned to AA. Guess what? now he plays tough. Maybe a kickback from WN. Not a grounding violation.
  Oh and lets see, that 10% transportation tax that every passenger has paid for at least the last 22 years, guess where that goes???? Not to pay for any upgraded air traffic equipment, but oh year, thats the airlines fault too isnt it. So when you fly that wonderful congested air space in NYC, in a snow storm, and take that 4-6 delay, thats all the airlines too isnt it.
  Youre an idiot, certainly a poor researcher and I guess thats why you write for who?
•  
  john B.

  Apr 11 10:48 PM
  Jarvis,
  
  Here is what you deserve as a paying pax.
  
  1. a safe aircraft that is operated legally.
  
  2. a flight crew that is safe and legal to fly.
  
  3. You deserve to get off the aircraft in the same physical condition that you entered with.
  
  That's it. You think you know something about getting, "buttfucked" by the airlines? How about having your pension stolen? How about a 40% paycut? How about watching the exec. team make hundreds of millions of dollars all on your back? How about having your work rules gutted? How about being forced to merge with a bunch of SCABS.
  
  Again, aside from the 3 aforementioned Items, I don't give, (literally) a flying fuck what think about your travel experience. Don't like it? start peddeling your Schwinn you whiny bitch.
  
•  
  Roadwarrior

  Apr 11 11:18 PM

  My Website
  Roadwarrior facepalms at Jarvis and says.....
  
  IDIOTA!
  
  It's a paper ticker, P A P E R T I C K E T. Airlines don't force people to get paper tickets, pax request them, and in many cases pay more for having that paper ticket.
  
  How is it the airline buttfucking her for providing her with the paper ticket she wanted?
  
  "Screwing your customers is no business model, folks." Thats not their business model. It is the airline industry that you, and the rest of America have chosen. The level of service you get is exactly how much you are willing to pay for. Your welcome.
•  
  Gotta be
  Kidding

  Apr 11 11:34 PM
  Jarvis shows his real level of maturity with his second post. Sorry, but one can only laugh at his cluelessness. I'm guessing he is enjoying the only attention he gets otherwise all day long. We are not laughing with you. We are laughing at you.
•  
  Gotta be
  Kidding

  Apr 11 11:44 PM
  One last thing. To the one person who still doesn't get it (yes, you Jarvis), we are not defending the industry, we merely explaining why things are as they are. If you need it, I am sure that there are some 3rd graders in the neighborhood who can explain the difference to you in non-threatening terms. You never know.
•  
  User 177279

  Apr 12 04:31 PM
  Having traveled a lot in the US and Europe i think the basic problem is protectionism. Both US and continental European airlines have been far to protected for far too long. Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and the ban on foreign ownership are blatant means of propping up failing airlines. Airlines in chapter 11 have only one desire- cashflow to survive. They don't care about profitability but about paying the wages next week. The result is that they cut prices to unsustainable levels to fill seats, resulting in unfair competition for airlines not in Chapter 11. Bankrupt airlines should be allowed to go out of business, reducing capacity and bringing supply and demand back into balance. People pay $199 NYC-LAX return because they can. A true free market would take away that option.
  
  Its not just in the US that this is a problem. Air France, Alitalia and other European airlines were subsidized by governments for years, keeping excess capacity in the air for far too long. The result is exactly as described in the blog. On routes with no low cost carrier, prices are ludicrously high. On routes where there is a LCC, the network airlines can't command a premium because they've cut all the extra service that would allow them to justify one.
  
  The model that works is the free market. In the UK, the emergence of the low cost carriers in the 1990s led to network carriers like British Airways cutting routes and capacity and positioning themselves as premium players whilst the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair took big shares of the mass short haul market. The result is that both business models work. BA is the world's most profitable airline by profit and Ryanair by margin. Meanwhile customers can decide whether they want value or service- but whichever they choose, the price is a sustainable one within the context of profit making businesses.
•  
  Ex15:26

  Apr 12 11:32 PM
  So do we go long here? The planes are all fixed right?
•  
  Jeff Jarvis

  Apr 13 12:17 PM

  My Website
  You airline people (I'm so impressed that you can use jargon like "pax") are exhibiting a classic denial of a doomed industry. Thanks for the textbook example. Why should I want to be treated like anything other than shit? Why do I think I deserve not to be screwed by you and your companies. How dare I? The first breath of competition will doom you, especially once protectionism stops coddling you. I fly Silverjet and Eos to London, never standard American airlines. Bye-bye now. Bye-bye.
•  
  BitterWorkin
  gClass

  Apr 13 01:59 PM
  Your profanity is a blatant sign of your ignorance and arrogance. As an Airline mechanic I agree AA took a casual approach to the interpetaion of the wiring AD, but the FAA is under the microscope now and this would normally never had been settled in the front page. The red-faced FAA is desperately giving trying to fix their reputation. That whole Government agency needs overhauled along with the ATC network. Every administration has passed the buck on this, Bush is no different.
•  
  gm

  Apr 13 02:12 PM
  It's astounding to me that the industry thinks this way... End the government bailout/protectionism, let the competition begin.
  
  It's rather funny, the comments on here protecting the industry. You only have the right to step out of the plane in the same shape you stepped into it? Holy cow! There are so many things wrong with that...
  
  And yes, "buttfucked" describes airlines' treatment of customers exactly. There is no better word. AA's handling of this wiring screwup is one huge buttfucking. BA's handling of their terminal 5 is another. Effortlessly, the examples of major buttfucks come out, now imagine the individual ones, and I chellenge you to think up of a SINGLE person that has not had a major run in with an airline employee.
•  
  Shawn
  Levasseur

  Apr 13 09:29 PM

  My Website
  "It's not just leisure travelers who aren't willing to pay the $5 (or $25 or $50) extra per ticket to get "more room throughout coach" or better service."
  
  Where do I go to pay that extra few bucks for larger seats? All I get when I go to book flights are schedules and prices. Nowhere is seat space ever listed?
  
  And y'know for all the complaints of airlines and airline workers... It doesn't justify poor treatment of the customers. So excuse the heck out of those of us who would like better.
  
  And why CAN'T a paper ticket be changed over the phone? All the information's still in the computer. And let's be honest, that scrap of paper that one gets charged an extra $30 or so for really is just a placebo for the customers who aren't comfortable unless they get tangible proof that they are booked. I don't understand why people get charged so much more for lesser treatment.
  
  (eh, these airline "defenders" may well be just be anonymous trolls, anyway)
•  
  Shawn
  Levasseur

  Apr 13 09:36 PM

  My Website
  Having said all that...
  
  In my experience, I've never had any serious problems with airlines, save for long lines for check in (which have improved in recent years).
  
  But it still is quite a heavily bureaucratic, kludgy system one has to go through as a passenger.
•  
  Dan Thornton

  Apr 14 06:02 AM

  My Website
  Beneath the name calling, I think both sides actually have a point.
  
  The current state of airlines (My experience is mainly European) is due to a variety of market forces, and most airline staff are hard working, decent people who have to deal with a huge amount of stressed travellers on a daily basis
  
  But the days of offering a one-size-fits-all approach is ending. Consumers are looking for more individualisation in all their services.
  
  I'm not particularly well off, but I already pay more for some services and products because the company has made some effort to offer decent customer service and tailor what they do to me in some way. That's how I chose where to buy my HDTV and my groceries for example. And I don't think the airlines will be immune in the coming years.
  
  Plus, no matter how hard staff work, airports are essentially the opening of hell on earth, and I've ended up driving and on Eurostar as much as possible in an effort to avoid them.
  
  There are countless airlines offering the cheapest possible prices (Until you add on taxes etc), so there's nothing to differentiate them. By adding service and individualisation, suddenly you give a reason for people to care who they fly with...
•  
  justapilot

  Apr 14 11:37 AM
  As a pilot, I do not want to keep anyone prisoner on my aircraft. You are free to "not fly." Amtrac and Greyhound are happy to have your business. I just want to say that you "get" what you "pay" for. The average passenger wants the cheapest/lowest fare and will change airlines for as little as one dollar dispite the route. For example .... I met a passenger who was boarding my aircraft on her way to Mexico City. I could tell that she was upset. I asked her what was wrong? She was angry because she had to wait six hours at the terminal for her flight to Mexico City. She ahd started at San Francisco. She wanted the airline to put her on the first available flight to Mexico City. I checked with the gate agent to find out what had gone wrong with this very nice lady. She a had bought a cheep fare through a discount service. She flew exactly what she paid for .... a flight from San Fran to Mexico City with a six hour layover round trip for $265. She could have flown direct from San Fran to Mexico City but it would have cost more. If you want Yugo pricing ... You get a Yugo product.
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  Roadwarrior

  Apr 14 11:42 AM

  My Website
  "The first breath of competition will doom you". Oh so what was Skybus? What is Southwest? what is Airtran? What is Virgin America? I guess they aren't competition for big 6. And each with a very different business model. Skybus is already gone. Southwest only stays afloat because of their massive fuel hedges. Virgin America will be gone before the year is out.
  
  "I'm so impressed that you can use jargon like "pax"" People in this industry use terms such as "pax" because they are familiar with them, not to impress you You only think they are trying to impress you, because you think to highly of yourself.
  
  "Why should I want to be treated like anything other than shit?" You aren't being treated like shit by the airlines, neither is the rest of America.
  
  The people of America have voted with their wallets. Americans shop at Wal-Mart is droves. They are trying to turn the airlines into Wal-Mart.
  
  Many of the airline employees you so happily deride, actually long for the good ol' days of air travel. But pax flat out refuse to pay for anything more than basic transportation. So they get what they pay for, Wal-Mart in the skies. It's quite simple to understand.
•  
  Gotta be
  Kidding

  Apr 14 12:24 PM
  It is quite comical to see Jarvis reply every now and then, as he considers himself the self-appointed "Most sophisticated person in the room". But he still is unable to coherently defend any of his statements. But when your career literary high water mark is TV Guide, you can get a better sense with what you are dealing.
•  
  Brain Hertz

  Apr 14 09:45 PM
  Jeff,
  is really is lovely for you that you fly business class only airlines (at 3x the price of standard coach fare) "whenever you can". I'm sure if the only available pricing was in that range, the service on mainstream carriers would be really impressive too.
  
  Meanwhile, for us mere mortals for whom airfare is actually considered quite a lot of money, price remains the #1 criterion in airline selection and as such, the airlines respond to the market as best they can to remain competitive.
  
  Perhaps you would like some additional regulation introduced to fix that?
•  
  Roadwarrior

  Apr 14 10:31 PM

  My Website
  Yes Jarvis, what exactly is it that Americans should expect for their $199 round trip fare? It's far less than the cost to drive and takes much, much less time. Or do you not know? Is it simply because you don't understand the market or the industry? It's ok to admit that you don't know what you are taking about, the rest of us already know that you don't.
  
  Maybe if I asked you questions about the latest episode of "Friends" or "Mad About You", you would respond with an intelligent answer. But wait, those shows are long gone, just like your knowledge and relevance.
  
  Also, "Shawn Levasseur". because that is what an e-ticket is. Can you call your bank and have them break a $100 bill over the phone? or access their website and have them break the same $100 bill online?. No. That's the point. A paper ticket is just that a PAPER TICKET. That is what a paper is. That's why the airlines are changing everything over to e-tickets.
  
  And I will say.. Having flown as both airline employee (in my case "Mother Delta") and as Pax. I have always been treated just fine by the airlines. But I also didn't have unrealistic expectations. And I think that is exactly what this article is all about, expecting the world (including pealed grapes) for the rock-bottom price.
  
  All: Jarvis is just a sad, pissy faced little man who does not know what he is talking about.
  
  Jarvis: Unless you can come up with a more intelligent response than "bye bye, now", simply admit that you have no idea what you are talking about or kindly STFU.
•  
  Roadwarrior

  Apr 14 10:33 PM

  My Website
  www.voidspace.org.uk/g...
•  
  not Bob
  Crandall

  Apr 15 12:03 PM

  My Website
  And I'm sure that things will only get better now that two losers (NW/DL) are set to merge with another set of losers (UA/CO) right behind. It is indeed the Walmarting of the industry and, much like Reaganomics, it will work in the short run. But the ultimate cost will be paid well into the future.
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  Shawn
  Levasseur

  Apr 15 08:11 PM

  My Website
  "A paper ticket is just that a PAPER TICKET."
  
  What is it that prevents an airline from changing the data over the phone, and issuing a new ticket? It's not as if the ticket even gets you on the plane, as you need to check in and get a boarding pass.
  
  The $100 bill analogy doesn't fit as there is no record at the bank of who currently "owns" a given bill. Airline tickets, however, are non-transferrable, and the record exists back on the airline's computers.
  
  A better analogy is phoning in a transfer of funds to the bank. They don't ask you to come down to the branch with your checkbook.
  
  Maybe there is some reason why it is this way. I suspect it's no more than a bureaucratic kludge that serves little purpose.
  
  "STFU"? Big words for someone hiding behind a pseudonym, Roadwarrior.
  
  (*sigh* Trolls... )
•  
  Roadwarrior

  Apr 16 01:48 AM

  My Website
  "A paper ticket is just that a PAPER TICKET."
  
  Is it SOO hard to understand. Yes tickets can be changed over the phone, they are e-tickets. The airlines aren't going to make a provision to change paper tickets over the phone, as that is what an e-ticket is, so get over it. They are instead doing everything they can to get rid of paper tickets.
  
  And I don't understand why you would attack me for telling an idiot like jarvis to shut up. He obviously has no idea what he is talking about, and should keep quiet. He's used this silly paper ticket issue to throw a hissy-fit about the airlines. He completely blew the whole thing out of proportion, to the point of calling it a "buttfucking"... by the airlines. I'm still laughing about that btw.
  
  I don't think you understand what a troll is. Here let me help you.
  
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
  
  ""STFU"... Big words for someone hiding behind a pseudonym, Roadwarrior.", now THAT is trollish.
  
  No if I were to reply with something like...
  
  "(*sigh* Trolls... )" Gay much? C'mon dude, be a man.
  
  THAT would be trollish, which is why I wouldn't do something like that.
  
  Strength and Honor,
  -Roadwarrior
•  
  not Bob
  Crandall

  Apr 28 11:12 AM

  My Website
  <quote>And apart from the all-business-class airlines I try to fly every time I can (Eos, Silverjet, and there are more coming), there is not one visible bit of innovation — not one attempt to get out of this mess — visible in the industry.
  <end quote>
  
  Looks like you need to update your list of favorite airlines, friend:
  
  biz.yahoo.com/ap/08042...
  
  All-business-class niche airline Eos folds
  Monday April 28, 7:00 am ET
  By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer
  Trans-Atlantic carrier Eos Airlines folds after $50 million financing deal falls through
  
  ATLANTA (AP) -- When Eos Airlines Inc. launched its first flights in 2005, the startup carrier named for a Greek goddess came with enthusiastic business travelers looking for more space who didn't mind hefty fares for premium service across the Atlantic.
  The airline reconfigured Boeing 757s meant for 220 passengers with 48 seats that could extend into a fully flat bed. Flights served wine, champagne, cocktails and gourmet foods. There were individual DVD players, and helicopter rides to the airport were offered to some travelers.
  
  The price for the New York to London flights, which it offered twice a day, ranged from $3,500 to $9,000 roundtrip.
  
  The high-flying luxuries came to an end Sunday as Purchase, N.Y.-based Eos ceased operations after filing for bankruptcy protection, the latest casualty of a credit crunch and a money-losing airline industry that has been hit hard by high fuel prices.
  
  There have been a handful of small carriers to file for Chapter 11 or go out of business in recent months. One of Eos' main rivals in the all-business-class niche, MAXjet Airways, stopped flying in December. At the time, analysts questioned the viability of all-business-class airlines.
  
•  
  LostPension

  May 20 10:41 AM
  Hello! They deregulated the airline industry in 1978. The flying public is getting EXACTLY what they demanded ....CHEAP! They sound like a bunch of chicks in an incubator when they book a flight! CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP!
  They got cheap, airlines cut staffing levels, cut pay, eliminated pensions. They're flying aircraft that should be in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum now. No modern industrialized nation on earth still flies MD-80s and DC-9s! Airlines can not afford to replace them.
  Name one other industry that lost 35 BILLION dollars in 6 years like the airline industry did in the 6 years after 2001! You can't because no industry comes close to losses like that.
  I know what you're going to say,Southwest has been profitable. That's true, but SW like other "low cost" carriers is a cherry picker. They only fly routes that high volume and therefore they can always count of full flights. What to get from Dallas to Billings Montana on SW, can't be done! You can get to Orlando from a lot of places on SW because it is a very high density market.
  Bottom line, the flying public is getting exactly what they demanded and now they don't like it! So when the flying public needs to know what's wrong with the airline industry these days they need look no further than their bathroom mirror!